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The Tren writeup was very informative. Is there a similar writeup for Deca?

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  • The Tren writeup was very informative. Is there a similar writeup for Deca?

    I gathered from the article that Deca nandrolone converts to DHN like Tren rather than DHT and that DHN build up causes certain problems, esp with sex drive, and mental effects. Also that Tren is a nandrolone like Deca. Ive heard a lot of great things about Deca, but does this mean one should be wary of it like Tren? Is there a reason its supposedly not as dangerous as Tren? Are there any write-ups that explain Deca the way this one explains Tren?

  • #2
    i think its due to not been TOTTALLY shut down you still produce some test *not much* but just maybe enough to make some DHT, where you put in test it basically will shut you down pretty solidly *i have no real evidence, just putting out possible reasons*

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    • #3
      Originally posted by dat111 View Post
      i think its due to not been TOTTALLY shut down you still produce some test *not much* but just maybe enough to make some DHT, where you put in test it basically will shut you down pretty solidly *i have no real evidence, just putting out possible reasons*
      If you add test to the deca then you will produce DHT from that test. I think if you just took deca and no test base you would have all your endogenous test suppressed and with no exogenous test available you would in turn have no DHT which would cause major problems and penis failure. Unless I'm not understanding something or there is another pathway.

      Regardless, according to the Tren writeup, Tren converts to DHN, which is not as good as DHT at certain things like promoting sex drive and sense of wellbeing, and also, I assume, even with exogenous test, outcompetes DHT somehow for the receptor sites and therefore causes problems.

      DHT is what you want for the sense of wellbeing and sex drive, but DHN replaces DHT and doesn't do as good a job.

      And the thing is DHN doesn't only come from Tren but any nandrolone including Deca.

      Which is why my question here: can Deca cause the same problems as Tren, and to what capacity and also what can be done about it?
      Last edited by Kasey; 01-13-2018, 05:39 PM.

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      • #4
        This is base level research and compound understanding.
        DHN behaves basically the same as DHT it just has a far weaker binding affinity. DHT will bind over DHN.

        DECA (nandrolone) only cycles work because there is no competing compund and the body is flooded with DHN, generally why the deca only cycle has you using 1g a week.

        deca is known to affect sex drive but that usually comes from progesterone/prolactin.
        Tren n deca although related behave differently overall and reactions tend to vary person to person like anything, Most guys have no sex drive issue when in tren, basically a cant keep it down.

        its also not all about DHT/DHN its about the balance. Balance with everything. My last cycle i was using Npp (19nor) and primo (DHT with huge binding affinity) with low test, 250mg. At week 6 i noticed sex drive was gone, dick would get up but not stay hard for long and a bit flat.
        I upped the test to 500 and was good to go.
        Test is your primary sex hormone.

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        • #5
          Hello all! May I chime in here.

          Deca is a relatively well researched AAS in humans as opposed to others such as tren. From what we have as far as the literature I have read is concerned, is that deca has caused libido and erectile dysfunction in some with an unknown cause, but the number of those experiencing those issues was few and far between. As for the deca and prolactin link, I do not believe there is cited evidence in the context we need? There is evidence however, that elevations of E2 are accompanied by elevations of PRL (prolactin) and therefore if deca is not being controlled via conventional aromatise inhibition, it may cause PRL to rise.

          Does anyone have any links to citations involving deca and PRL in the ABSENCE of elevated E2 also? Because testosterone itself can cause elevations in PRL if E2 is not controlled. I urge anyone to inject 750 mg of testosterone and not use an AI and see where not just their E2 is, but also where their PRL is. It appears some compounds have a tricky time at being managed with conventional aromatise inhibition methods in some users. I suggest for users who "cry prolactin" with deca to check their lab work FIRST before the addition of caber. What I see is that in these cases where PRL is elevated, E2 is also. Sometimes it will require a more aggressive approach to controlling aromatisation, whether that be with more of the given AI of choice or to change to Letrozole in search of further suppression. Of course, Caber is of no real harm to add if that solves the issues also, but to add the least possible adjuvant meds is good practice I think. It is also important to note that Caber has other benefits as a dopamine receptor agonist to assist with libido that are not inherently unique to PRL levels. I have suggested Caber to those who's PRL levels were within normal limits, who had libido issues, where Caber was still of profound benefit.

          Backward to the libido issue, if anyone could solve it for every case, they'd become a billionaire! Libido is a subjective marker to use with so many variables to consider. That is why you see some on deca/tren that are ready to rock n roll at all times of the day and others who run the same cycle who find their girlfriend turns them on about as much as my left toe does (unless you're into that type of thing). Fine tuning libido as only a hormonal issue is the first step to failure. I have cured many cases just by telling them to refrain from watching porn for a month! The point to make is that the psychological and psycho-somatic effects can be just as powerful. I have known for a user to psyche himself out of feeling horny just because he engaged in the use of deca, only to find out from his friend it was testosterone all along when they mixed up the labels. Placebo is well cited to be a powerful tool in health. That is not to discredit the very real effects hormones can have on our libido. The main take home point would be to experiment with what your sweet spot is and note down exactly what you were taking, doing, sleeping, eating, training and sexing at the time. This would provide a more accurate treatment plan than to speculate on the unknown world that is AAS research in humans. It is a crap shoot to go down. Even the most established endocrinologists and neuroscientists will not be able to give you concrete answers on such combinations and doses of AAS because they have not been researched with strong, human controls.

          The DHT/DHN topic I do not know how to comment. DHT is of course responsible for positive effects in the brain and one of them is libido, but where can we compare DHN/DHT or ratios of DHN/DHT, I would also like to see citations. I am not saying this is not the cause or whether or not PRL is the cause or not in some, but it is important for us all to remember that the research on AAS and especially at these doses is very unclear! We can speculate all day, but we should not make any black and white statements about what is causing what. There is a saying used in medicine, "if you're guessing, you're wrong."

          Take home points of positivity but:

          - Deca has been used for many years in the UG scene and overall, the reports on mental and physical health are not anything to fuss. Almost all that have experienced issues on 19-nors quickly return to normal once the meds are ceased.
          - Deca is still one of the best for building muscle, period!
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          Comment


          • Kasey
            Kasey commented
            Editing a comment
            Thanks a lot for that!

          • austeroids
            austeroids commented
            Editing a comment
            Thank you Kasey. I wish we had more concise evidence in human subjects for AAS at these doses to be able to provide a more comprehensive review for you. If anything, the most valuable people to ask the questions that revolve around what happens to a user clinically (the real world) are in my opinion, the "experienced bros." Despite their hypothesis and bro-scientific explanations often being a little off, they possess the real world experience at times from 100's if not 1000's of user experiences. And of course, a coach with a combination of chem and real world knowledge is preferred. Hope more people will chime in and continue this discussion.

            Regards, David.
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